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Flagship Fireside

Weaving Worlds: Indigenous Traditions & Western Psychotherapy

Eugenia Casimiro & Françoise Bourzat in conversation w/ Ismail Ali

Filmed February 14, 2020 in Berkeley, CA
Premiered November 18, 2020

*This conversation is in both English and Spanish. Please select CC for subtitles, next to settings.*

1h 17m | Watch preview

In this unique cross-cultural conversation, we compare and discuss the connections between Mazatec healing traditions and Western psychotherapy.


Eugenia Casimiro, Mazatec healer
Françoise Bourzat, guide & author
In conversation w/ Ismail Ali, MAPS

Replay the followup live Q&A with Françoise & Izzy


Disclaimer: After the release of this episode, two articles were published by Will Hall in September 2021 with allegations of ethical misconduct by Françoise Bourzat and her partner, Aharon Grossbard. Here are the articles and their responses:

Following these events, we hosted a conversation on PsychSems covering this in October 2021: Underground Healing, Erotic Transference, & Psychedelic Ethics

An additional article with more allegations was then published in November 2021 by Katie MacBride for Inverse: “Aharon Said It Was Healing.” Psychedelic-assisted therapy is bigger than ever, but it’s at risk of being compromised by alleged abuse.

While we are keeping this video in the public record, this does not constitute an endorsement.

Psychedelic Survivors is dedicated to supporting survivors of sexual abuse/assault and/or direct personal harm within the context of psychedelic therapy, sessions or ceremony.

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